Debajo incluyo el intercambio por correo electrónico que sostuve con Mateo, quien es parte de Sexahólicos Anónimos.
Para más información acerca de estos correos, visita Correspondencias con un Sexahólico y Correspondencias con un Sexahólico-Parte 2 .
A continuación el mensaje original a través del sitio web www.venciendo-la-lujuria.com:
De: Mateo
En Dom, Mar 10, 2013 a 1:12 PM, Mateo escribió:
Sitio: Venciendo la Lujuria (https://venciendo-la-lujuria.com)
Mensajes: Me daría mucha curiosidad escuchar sus opiniones sobre Sexahólicos Anónimos, donde la definición de sobriedad incluye: \”no tener relaciones sexuales con uno mismo o con compañeros que no sean el cónyuge\”, y \”victoria progresiva sobre la lujuria.\”
En mi experiencia, los programas de recuperación de 12 pasos son, en última instancia, sobre la transformación de la persona interna, no simplemente sobre la apariencia externa. Leer su artículo que habla sobre programas de \’recuperación\’ me sugiere que el taller/convención a que asistió a) hizo un muy mal trabajo de comunicación acerca de qué tratan los programas de recuperación o b) no entendió el punto.
Jim Vander Spek < > escribió:
Hola Mateo,
Gracias por tus comentarios. Estoy interesado en saber más sobre SA. ¿Cómo definen “lujuria”? ¿Tienes algún material suyo o un grupo similar que se refiera a eso?
El taller Cristiano citado en mi artículo ni siquiera usa el lenguaje correcto y no están solos. Mi objetivo al escribir sobre este tema es enseñar victoria y ofrecer esperanza al enfocarme en el tema de la lujuria.
El adjunto es un extracto de mi libro, que habla de esto también.
¿Cual es tu historia? ¿Estás experimentando la victoria? Oro para que lo estés.
En Él,
jvs
Mateo escribió:
Jim,
Gracias por enviar eso. Te agradezco que escribas sobre el tema y me alegra ver que intentas abordarlo. Un poco sobre mi historia primero, luego llegaré a SA y “lujuria”, y cómo creo que podrías estar malentendiendo el enfoque “secular” (que realmente no es secular) a la lujuria.
Tengo 24 años. Descubrí la masturbación por accidente cuando estaba en séptimo grado, solo en casa y aburrido. Se sentía bien, y aunque tenía la sensación de que estaba comiendo fruta prohibida, lo hice de nuevo. Y otra vez. Y otra vez. Luego descubrí que mirar las imágenes de mujeres hacía que las vibraciones que experimentaba fueran más fuertes, así que comencé a buscarlas también.
La definición más básica de adicción es hacer algo específico una y otra vez, aunque no quieras hacerlo. Ese era yo: fui criado en un hogar Cristiano, y la culpa interior era insoportable, y sin embargo continué.
En octavo grado, me uní a un pequeño grupo en la iglesia, y ayudó un poco. Hablamos sobre la Biblia, cómo nos dijo que nos mantuviéramos alejados de la lujuria, y hablamos sobre cómo deberíamos ser guerreros contra la lujuria. Pude ir tal vez una semana o dos sin masturbarme, pero cuanto más luché – más me atacó la lujuria. Yo siempre, al final perdí.
Avancemos rápido a mi tiempo en la universidad. Me mudé a la ciudad de Nueva York para ir a la escuela y perdí mi grupo pequeño en mi hogar en Oregon. Sin ninguna responsabilidad, mi hábito (en este punto, claramente adicción), comenzó a ponerse más feo. La pornografía que consumía de vez en cuando se volvía más oscura, más retorcida y violenta. Luché mucho, pero siempre perdí. En mi último año, tuve que masturbarme por la mañana para sentir ganas de levantarme. Luego, por la noche, tuve que masturbarme, a veces dos veces, solo para ir a dormir. Estaba cada vez más cerca de tratar de contactar personas reales para tener relaciones sexuales, y aunque no quería hacerlo, me sentí deslizándome cuesta abajo.
Aquí es importante preguntar: “¿por qué estoy haciendo esto?” ¿Me estaba deslizando por esta colina solo porque soy un hombre? La respuesta clara es no. Tengo amigos que no tienen que masturbarse y fantasear. Podrían hacerlo de vez en cuando, pero no lo hacen para levantarse por la mañana. No son adictos, en un sentido muy clínico y científico de la palabra.
Aproximadamente una semana después de graduarme, un amigo me dijo que había “pasado un mes sin hacerlo”. Sabía exactamente a qué se refería, y quedé impresionado.
“¿Cómo diablos has hecho eso?” Yo pregunté. Dijo que se unió a un grupo de doce pasos, y que, de alguna manera, estaba funcionando. Entonces me uní, y unos dos años más tarde, y aquí estoy, escribiéndote.
Tu preguntaste si estoy o no experimentando la victoria. Responder a eso es una cosa de varias capas, por supuesto, la victoria no solo se define por el comportamiento. Pero para tener un poco de perspectiva, en 2011, no pude dormir o despertar sin usar la lujuria y la masturbación como una muleta. Simplemente no podía vivir en la realidad con mis sentimientos e insuficiencias.
En 2012, estaba sobrio de la masturbación durante 364 de los 365 días del año. Para mí y para cualquier otro adicto, esto es realmente un milagro. Es, en resumen, que Dios está haciendo por mí lo que no pude hacer por mí mismo.
Por supuesto, la victoria no es solo algo externo, estar libre de “actuar”. Pero ser libre de actuar no puede ser subestimado. Por supuesto, para estar libre de la masturbación, también tenemos que estar libres de lujuria, por lo que el programa de 12 pasos de SA incluye la victoria sobre la lujuria.
¿Entonces como hacemos esto? ¿Hacemos esto yendo a las reuniones, animándonos el uno al otro y comprometiéndonos a no mirar a las mujeres y masturbarnos? Si eso es lo que SA es, no sería diferente del pequeño grupo en el que estuve en la secundaria. SA es más profundo.
SA trata de sanar nuestra relación con Dios, con nosotros mismos y con los demás, para que no tengamos que actuar para distraernos de la realidad. Por lo tanto, SA no es, en última instancia, “secular”, como afirmas en tu comentario adjunto. Claro, no es explícitamente “Cristiano”, pero si lees la historia, fue fundada por Cristianos y obviamente está basada en la verdad Cristiana. Y así es que cuando voy a una reunión de SA para compartir cómo estoy, me siento en la misma habitación que judíos, musulmanes, agnósticos y otros, y todos estamos buscando una relación con Dios – un Dios que es al fin y al cabo es el Dios Cristiano.
Y ese es mi desacuerdo: SA no se trata de modificar el comportamiento. En definitiva, se trata de la purificación de nosotros mismos, para alinear nuestra voluntad con Dios. Es por eso que si lees los pasos, no encontrarás “el cuarto paso: huimos de la lujuria donde sea que lo hayamos visto” u otras estrategias. Encontrarás el reconocer y asumir la responsabilidad de nuestras acciones (pecados) en los pasos 1, 2 y 3. Luego, encuentras “cambiar nuestro comportamiento y amar a los demás” en los pasos 4-7. Luego, en los pasos posteriores tienes “corregir nuestros errores”, luego en el paso 11, manteniendo contacto consciente con Dios, luego en el paso 12, “llevando la solución a los que la necesitan”, en términos menos directos, ¡el Evangelio!
Así es que todas estas personas con diferentes antecedentes están encontrando una relación real con Dios, y le están entregando sus vidas a Él, un paso a la vez.
Hoy, no estoy solo 128 días sobrio. También estoy trabajando en los pasos y descubriendo que la raíz de mi adicción son mis propios defectos de carácter – las formas en que me alejo de Dios y de las personas. Soy egoísta, enojado, resentido y auto-compasivo. Y sin embargo, a través de este programa, a través de una relación con Dios, puedo comenzar a cambiar lo que soy y ser más libre de lujuria y, lo que es más importante, en una relación más profunda con Dios.
Jim Vander Spek < > escribió:
Hola Mateo,
Muchas gracias por esto. Nunca me sumergí en toda la posición de SA. El artículo en wikipedia es excelente y respalda todos los puntos que has presentado.
Voy a leer más. Ciertamente no hablaré mal de SA y no he hecho esto. Leí la definición del libro blanco de la lujuria e intentaré digerirla. ¿Cómo crees que se compara con la definición que tengo en mi artículo llamado, Entendiendo la Lujuria https://venciendo-la-lujuria.com/articles/understanding-lust/ ?
Gracias también por tu testimonio. Es del tipo que debe ser compartido más ampliamente entre los Cristianos. Mantengo mi crítica de cómo los consejeros Cristianos están manejando este asunto. Quizás necesiten entrar en el material de SA.
Esto llegó en un buen momento, ya que estoy escribiendo una publicación de blog para covenanteyes.com sobre los consejeros Cristianos y reflejará lo que estoy aprendiendo.
“Que el Señor mismo, te santifique por completo.”
jvs
Mateo escribió:
Jim,
Creo que tu artículo establece un caso justo para lo que es la lujuria. Y entiendo tu frustración con los consejeros Cristianos. Soy un testimonio viviente de cómo muchos Cristianos no logran entender qué es la lujuria, o lo que es más importante, cómo lidiar con ella. La “supresión del pensamiento” es un juego perdedor, y es la forma predominante de hablar sobre la lujuria.
En mi experiencia, mucha de la discusión se enfoca en por qué debemos ser puros, para nuestras esposas, nuestras relaciones, para poder ser justos, etc. No tienden a enfocarse en la razón más importante para ser puros: para nosotros mismos . La lujuria es adictiva y destructiva, y por su propia naturaleza tiende a anular todos los deseos de vivir una vida moral, ser un “soldado para Cristo”, etc. La mayor victoria que he visto en mis amigos ha sido el resultado de reconocer que La lujuria en última instancia nos matará – si no físicamente en algunos casos, ciertamente espiritualmente a largo plazo.
Envíame ese artículo para covenanteyes cuando lo hayas terminado – ¡Me gustaría mucho leerlo!
Jim Vander Spek <> escribió:
Hola Mateo,
Gracias por tu valioso aporte. Me alegra que la definición de lujuria que he estado usando esté en sintonía con lo que SA está enseñando.
¿Tienes tiempo para considerar otra pregunta? ¿Estarías tu o SA de acuerdo con la definición de “victoria sobre la lujuria” a la que he llegado? Lo describo en la página 45 de mi libro y en el capítulo 9. Aquí hay un pdf del libro: (eliminado). Puedes leer el libro completo en línea o descargarlo.
Que Dios te bendiga y te dé la victoria.
En Él,
jvs
| Mateo escribió:: | |||
Jim,
Contento de poder servirte. En cuanto a la “victoria sobre la lujuria”, es decir, en palabras diferentes, la definición exacta de victoria definida por SA. SA no se trata de un comportamiento perfecto, se trata de “victoria progresiva sobre la lujuria”, también redactado como una victoria progresiva sobre la compulsión que nos trajo a SA.
Comparto tu frustración con el estado de consejería cristiana sobre la lujuria. Es visto por muchos como el pecado “invencible”, y la mayoría de los muchachos en mi vida se rindieron después de la secundaria, justo como lo hice en la universidad. Nos enseñaron que la lujuria es malvada, que tenemos que luchar contra ella, para ser “soldados para Cristo”, pero al final estamos totalmente mal equipados para lidiar con la lujuria, así que luchamos y peleamos y luchamos, y perdemos y perder y perder ¿Qué opción tenemos sino rendirnos y simplemente aceptarlo como un pecado con el que siempre “lucharemos”, pero nunca lo superaremos?
Esto es solo parte de una ola más grande de la revolución sexual que está influyendo en los círculos Cristianos. Mi antiguo mentor en realidad me llamó el otro día después de 5 o 6 años y me pidió disculpas por enseñarme que la masturbación es un pecado. “Por lo que puedo decir”, dijo, “no hay ninguna evidencia explícita en la Biblia contra eso”.
La persona que necesita evidencia Bíblica explícita para saber que la masturbación es pecaminosa todavía usa sus pañales Cristianos. Pero desafortunadamente, las actitudes culturales prevalecientes hacia la sexualidad afectan la forma en que los Cristianos hoy interpretan las Escrituras. Entonces, lo que parecía obvio para los Cristianos durante los últimos 2000 años con respecto a la ética sexual ahora se deja de lado con calma porque “simplemente no puedo ver dónde dice que la Biblia dice no”.
Esto es exactamente lo que sucedió con el debate sobre la anticoncepción, es exactamente lo que sucederá en el debate sobre el matrimonio entre homosexuales y el clero homosexual. En los 1900 años anteriores a la década de 1920, la verdad de que la anticoncepción es un grave y peligroso pecado moral era obvia para toda la Cristiandad, ya sea que usted fuera católico, anglicano, presbiteriano, metodista, evangélico, etc., sin embargo, en solo 80 años hemos perdido tanto de nuestra sabiduría moral que ahora damos por sentado que “por supuesto, no hay evidencia contra la anticoncepción – ¿por qué habríamos de prescindir de ella?”. La cuestión de la anticoncepción no nos parece polémica, ¡pero para los miles de millones de Cristianos que nos precedieron, seríamos herejes!
Triste, ¿no es así? Es una de las razones por las que recomendaría leer la enseñanza católica sobre la sexualidad humana. Los católicos han tenido la bendición de una tradición muy fuerte de ética/teología sexual profunda y razonable, basada principalmente en las Escrituras y la ley natural. Sugeriría Humanae Vitae como un buen lugar para comenzar.
En última instancia, esta lucha se ganará al volver a leer la Biblia a través del lente de la ley natural, no como un libro de leyes que debe obedecerse palabra por palabra. Cuando perdemos nuestro sentido común moral, también perdemos nuestra capacidad de interpretar adecuadamente las Escrituras, razón por la cual muchos Cristianos hoy leen las Escrituras y no pueden entender por qué no pueden ver pornografía, masturbarse, casarse con el mismo sexo, etc., etc. .
Saludos,
Mateo
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Gracias de nuevo por su valiosa contribución. Estoy contigo. Ojalá mis antepasados Calvinistas se hubieran quedado Católicos y hubieran resuelto los problemas en esa iglesia en lugar de crear los escombros que habitamos.
Más preguntas: creo que la victoria sobre la lujuria solo puede provenir de un caminar más profundo con Dios. Expongo los medios para esto en caps. 7-8 de mi libro. ¿Ofrece SA otros enfoques? ¿Hay algunos con los que no estarían de acuerdo?
En Él,
jvs
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Jim,
With respect to victory over lust only coming from a deeper walk with God, I wholeheartedly agree. Sexaholics Anonymous is based on the same premise, that our search for the magic lust hit that will save us is really a desperate search for God in all the wrong places. Thus when we begin to search for God, and when we inevitably find Him (“seek and ye shall find”), our addiction to lust (as a means of escaping an existence without God) begins to heal.
The main difference is, SA tends to bring people to a deeper walk with God through direct, positive, internal change rather through things like meditating on scripture, though meditation is an important part of the program as well. Many of us tried doing “religious things,” in my case, Bible studies, emotional worship and prayer, etc. And many of us realize that though we were trying so hard, we were really trying to manage our addiction ourselves, through our own strategies and plans. In the end, we failed because we wouldn’t let God give us the victory. In the program, we learn that we don’t have to struggle against lust: we can offer it up to God and He will take care of it – every time, as long as we ask, and then surrender.
In one of the passages I read, you said that “My defense is to instantly recoil from them” (lustful thoughts). I get what you are saying here, and don’t think that it is a bad approach. But this is what I tried most of my life before SA – more willpower, more fighting, and ultimately more losing. SA has a whole section on “surrender”, which to the sexaholic is the most beautiful word in the whole world, for it means victory, and victory without the struggle that tormented us for so long.
Surrender means not fighting. When I surrender, I throw up my hands on the inside and say “God, I am powerless over lust. No amount of willpower will save me. You have to win for me.” And then I “let go”, and hand it over to God, and the temptation passes. Sometimes I surrender a thousand times in a day. Sometimes, I have days where I hardly feel the need to surrender at all, because I am living in surrender; surrender to God’s will for me, which is Holiness.
So all that to say, I would love to see a discussion of surrender in your book, and to have it contrasted with the will-powering that Christians are taught at church. It was the biggest revelation of my life, and I apply surrender to everything from lust to fear to anger and anxiety. I can’t explain it, but it is different than the panicked strategies of desperate prayer and Bible reading that I employed before I ever experienced victory.
That being said, there is a remarkable similarity between your tools and the steps of the program.
Fleeing Temptation and Resisting the Very First Impulse to Sin – Step 1, 2, and 3
- Reconciling Relationships – Steps 8 and 9
- Uprooting All Spiritual Pride – Steps 4, 5, and 10
- Continuing in Prayer – Step 11
- Maintaining Transparency with Others Who Are Committed to Help – meetings (this is called step 0), step 12
- Properly Directing Our Thoughts – steps 6, 7, 10, and 11
- Persisting in Godliness – Step 10, 11
Additionally, your quote here: “Therefore, we must each day and each moment how we will direct our thoughts.” is very reminiscent of SA’s focus on “one day at a time.” We don’t commit to beating lust every time for the rest of our lives – we would fall apart under the pressure. Instead, we commit a day at a time, or even an hour at a time, and after a while the time adds up to months or years, and we begin to see that God is “doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.”
So I’d say you’re onto something pretty good with your book. I’d love to see a discussion of surrender v willfulness in a later addition, only because to me that was the key to my entire recovery.
Best,
Matthew
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Hi Matthew,
Wow, thanks for all this.
I will consider the surrender side of this issue. Have you developed a biblical foundation for this? My experience was more the “let go, let God” approach which did not work at all for me and is not supportable by Scripture. Lust is a sin and even for a Christian, the solution is always confession, forgiveness, repentance.
In Him,
jvs
| Matthew wrote: | |||
Jim,
With respect to a Biblical foundation, and your experience with the “let go, let God” approach, I humbly submit a few points:
Surrendering to God’s will is the core of sanctification – the lives and writings of the Saints repeatedly testify to this. I would challenge you to tell me how surrendering our will to God’s is not Biblical!
- With respect to “let go and let God,” I should point out that the principle of surrender is not purely internal. Surrender is an internal admission that we are powerless over lust without God, and is a simultaneous assent to doing what is necessary to be rid of the temptation – whether that is calling/texting a friend, exposing the temptation to the light, sharing at a meeting, or physically removing yourself from the tempting situation if that is possible. “Let go and let God” by itself is a recipe for disaster, probably because our “hearts are deceitful above all else” – this is why bringing temptation to the light of another person is so important. All of that to say, I am suspicious that your version of “let go, let God” and SA’s are two different things, considering SA’s version produces truly miraculous results over and over again with different people.
- As far as lust as a sin goes, this is true. I certainly don’t deny it, and neither does SA. The difference is that SA focuses on the addiction to lust as a real disease – for just like alcoholism, it is in fact a disease of the mind, body, and soul. Of course, the temptation here (especially for outsiders to 12 step programs) is to think that the fact that we struggle with a disease somehow frees us from any guilt, repentance, or responsibility. A cursory glance at Alcoholics Anonymous or Sexaholics Anonymous demonstrates very clearly that our problems are of our own making, and the word “sin” is used repeatedly.
Overall, I think the most important point to make with respect to the “Biblicalness” of SA is that God is not at the mercy of the Bible, because the power of the Bible is that it is not just words. The words in the Bible point to ultimate truths of our universe, that if applied by an ignorant atheist are just as true as if applied by a Christian. The Christian might have deep insights into the Truth at work, but it is in the physical doing of the surrendering and changing of the inner person that God manifests. That’s why as a Christian I am deeply excited and humbled by the SA meetings I attend: because I see people who know nothing of Christ taking up their Crosses and following Him without even knowing it.
Would love to hear your thoughts.
Best,
Matthew
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Hi Matthew,
I think you are zeroing in on my concerns with the recovery movement. The newest data does show that use of porn is physically addictive. However, I have real trouble of thinking of addiction to any sin as being a debilitating permanent sickness/condition.
I don’t read you saying that, but that is definitely the way people treat it. In Christ we are not in an endless loop. He came to set us free.
I will take time to absorb this and all your emails when I have time.
In Him,
jvs
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Jim,
Glad to see we’re zeroing in. In lieu of a longer theological response, I’ll just say a few things:
- Addictive diseases are not permanently debilitating. We can heal, and become whole.
- Sexaholism, alcoholism, and every other addiction is a permanent condition (barring a miracle). That is a fact. The neural pathways of our brains are permanently damaged, which is why the most holy Christian man who has been sober 30 years is still capable of experiencing the temptation of craving, should he put himself in a dangerous situation.
- The doctrine of original sin has a good deal to say about how the temptation to addictive sin remains within us. We are born with a natural proclivity toward sin that will only be corrected in heaven. Though we can do much to bring our will into alignment with God while on Earth, original sin means that the temptation to sin will always remain, though leading a deliberate and Holy life can make temptations small and feeble. We can have victory over taking the actions of sin – but there is little theological basis for claiming that Christ meant for us to enter a temptation-less state while here on earth. After all, our daily prayer ought to include “and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.”
Christ came to set us free from being slaves to sin. He claimed freedom from doing sinful things, and that freedom is available in recovery. Scripture does not claim that we ought to expect freedom from temptation on this side of heaven.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts – thanks for letting me voice mine!
Best,
Matthew
Jim Vander Spek < > wrote:
Hi Matthew,
Note the concerns below in blue as stated in my article. I have real trouble with a Christian saying, “I am a sex addict” if he is overcoming lust. Your thoughts on this?
Sinner versus addict
The first major difference is that the EMB book emphasizes the fact that allowing impure sexual thoughts to take hold in our minds is a grave sin. Such knowledge should motivate men to confess and repent, meaning to thoroughly remove lust from their lives. Fundamentally, the book calls on Christians to despise lust and to apply an achievable standard of purity. It also demonstrates how this purity can save and enrich troubled marriages.
The workshop, in contrast, stuck closely to our culture’s accepted wisdom. In fact, the leader, who continues to be the West Coast Program Director and main author and speaker for the workshop introduced himself with the classic twelve step introduction, “I am a sex addict.” He felt comfortable saying this despite the fact that he was a pastor and a noted writer on sexual purity issues. During one of the early sessions the sin issue and the need to confess and repent was clearly explained. However, this straightforward biblical teaching was not the central theme of the conference and was quickly abandoned along the way.
Instead of focusing on the sin of lust and how to eliminate it from our lives, the workshop message wrapped itself in therapeutic language. Recovery, relapse, and regression were just some of the key concepts that dominated. The bulk of the teaching dealt with inner conflicts, childhood experiences and emotional triggers that supposedly lie at the root of the problem. Dealing with our moods, past wounds and resentment was touted as essential in order to get a grip on our unhealthy behavior. The need to gain control of certain behaviors, such as viewing pornography and masturbation, emerged as the main focus instead of eliminating lust dwelling in the heart.
This wholesale surrender to muddled, secular theories about uncontrolled lust and the accompanying strong emphasis on outward behavior contrasted strikingly with the direct uncomplicated teaching found in the EMB book. For example, a fundamental insight presented in the EMB book is the distinction it lays down between “excellence” and “purity.” Excellence sounds good and lines up with what even the world would advocate for those seeking a high standard of behavior in the sexual realm. Those Christians achieving excellence would exhibit an ability to behave properly and to keep sexual sin under control in a way that almost anyone would find commendable.
| Matthew wrote: | |||||
Jim,
These few paragraphs make up the passage that initially bothered me, mainly because the paragraphs are riddled with oversimplifications of or misrepresentations of a 12 step group like Sexaholics Anonymous.
But I want to respond to your main point, the idea of a pastor calling himself a “sex addict.” I can understand why that would make any Christian feel uncomfortable – after all, shouldn’t a pastor be a spiritual leader in the church? The trouble is, “I am a sex addict” has nothing to do with describing a current state of behavior, any more than someone saying, “Hi, I’m James and I’m an alcoholic” says anything about their current drinking habits. In fact, I have friends in AA, and even the guys who are 15 or 20 years sober still introduce themselves at meetings as “I’m an alcoholic.” So this man saying, “Hi, I’m a sex addict” is more akin to saying “Hi, I am extremely tempted with lust, and it has been a problem in the past.”
If a pastor at an alcoholic convention said, “Hi, I’m James and I’m an alcoholic,” and you knew he had long-term sobriety, would that bother you? If so, why? I am increasingly convinced that a pastor who is willing to admit that he has a very real psychological dependency on something (sex, alcohol, etc) has a much better chance of actually having victory over lust in their lives than someone who denies that truth about themselves in order to be an example (Ted Haggard and a slew of others come to mind).
But back to the paragraphs you copied. I just want to address some of the statements, because with all due respect I think they are unfair.
“The need to gain control of certain behaviors, such as viewing pornography and masturbation, emerged as the main focus instead of eliminating lust dwelling in the heart.” – this is not representative of SA, because sobriety is defined as “progressive victory over lust” on top of “no sex outside of marriage and no sex with self.” However I should point out that there are groups like SAA (Sex Addicts Anonymous) that allow members to define their own – I think those are serious problems. But many people figure out the problem and move to groups like SA.
I’d also point to your recent blog post, which lists these five ‘visions’ for overcoming lust:
1 Don’t confuse this vision with the false idea of seeking sinless perfection. We will continue to sin. In fact, the more we grow in godliness the more we are aware of weaknesses, deficiencies and sins.
2 Lust is not the same as having misdirected sexual desires and thoughts. These will continue and are not sin. The sin occurs when we harness such desires and thoughts to commit adultery in our hearts.
3 Allowing the sin of lust to become established within you is a serious, solvable problem. Do not minimize it. If you are overwhelmed by lust, you need to take immediate action.
4 This is a very practical and workable vision for every believer. It is part and parcel of your life in Christ and the way you are expected to live when God dwells in you.
5 Don’t settle for a lesser vision—like quitting the use of porn. Any vision that is merely directed at symptoms is unacceptable and falls short of what God intends for you.
All five points are standard understanding in Sexaholics Anonymous, thus, I’m not entirely sure what you are criticizing with twelve step recovery programs. They are based on the same vision, and they achieve it in almost exactly the same way. Then again, I don’t know what was said at this workshop you went to – there might have been some crazy people there.
Best,
Matthew
| Jim Vander Spek < > wrote | : | ||
Hi Matthew
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtful emails. They are challenging my thinking. In fact, the blog post I am writing for next week reflects your input.
I am deep into my tax season now, working way too many hours. I will respond when my head is clearer. However, keep writing. Also, consider writing comments on my blog posts whenever it suits you. You have much to offer that others need to hear.
“May the Lord of peace Himself give you peace always in every way.”
In Him,
jvs
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Hi Matthew,
It has been a while since I have written to you. I hope you are well. Again, I appreciate your willingness to engage me on these issues. You have given me a new appreciation for SA
I am writing to address your second point, below. Where I think we differ is on the question of whether sexaholism is a permanent condition. I do not believe that it is permanent for a Christian who consistently recoils from lust and diligently follows God’s instructions for pure living.
You may be aware of the book by Struthers, Wired for Intimacy. In the following blog post, http://wiredforintimacy.blogspot.com/2010/01/late-night-on-kdka-message-of-hope.html#comment-form he writes, “When I see how the plasticity of the brain enables us to form new paths, new wiring, which can lead us to a mindset which looks away rather than leers, which celebrates rather than consumes I am filled with hope for those who are lost.” I see that as supportive of my view and written by an expert in the neural pathways/pornography studies. I have not read his book yet but reviews seem to indicate that this is a point he emphasizes.
My experience supports this. Having been a slave to lust (would this be what you call a sexaholic?) I find that my mind has been gradually renewed and does not respond to temptation as it once did.
Thoughts on this?
In Him,
Jvs
| Matthew wrote: | |||
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Hey Jim!
Thanks for writing over, I appreciate being a part of the conversation.
I still get the sense that we might be talking past each other a little bit on what it means to a sexaholic. I would agree on all counts that 1) we do not have to be a slave to lust, 2) we do not have to respond to temptation as we once did (we can heal). It might help to clarify that SA is not a program of behavior modification, self-empowerment, or strategies. It is a program entirely reliant upon a change of heart to follow God’s will in all areas of life, because only when we give our will entirely to God are we able to let go of our fists which have clenched around lust.
Sexaholism is essentially having an allergy toward lust – in other words, when we take in lust, we want more of it, and we are powerless, on our own power, to stop. It is through total surrender to God’s will (for us to be righteousness) that we can stay sober minded and grow in righteousness over the years. It stands to reason then that the minute we trade in God’s will for our own, we become more vulnerable to lust. Thus SA doesn’t say that we are always at the mercy of an unbeatable foe, but that we can only stay righteous to the extent that we are trusting entirely in God for our salvation for lust.
That doesn’t sound so un-Christian, does it?
I’d even go a step further and say that any approach to lust that doesn’t address the underlying character defects that cause addiction to lust (or whatever you’d like to call it, propensity maybe) will ultimately only lead to behavior management. If we look at a propensity to lust as simply a problem with lust, we’ve missed the point entirely – we lust because we are trying to fill a need with something other than God. That need is a Connection with God, and that only happens if we surrender all of ourselves, not just lust, to God.
And perhaps that’s why I’d like to say that I don’t find that quote by Struthers to be particularly inspirational. I don’t want a path to righteousness based on a goal of “a mindset which looks away rather than leers.” Of course, every single day, I have to look away (especially in New York City). I did that just a few minutes ago when I was walking to work. But that doesn’t mean that the goal I’m working toward is just an ability to look away instead of lust. My goal is to view people as humans made in the image of God, because lust after all is just a distortion and objectification of people. So the point shouldn’t be to just “stop objectifying people,” because there is much more! Our goal should be to be so wholly united with God that we can be in the midst of a dark spiritual situation and look upon others as God does.
Perhaps this is where the story of the bishop preaching outside of a church and the prostitute takes some of its power. From The Lives of the Saints:
“The Patriarch of Antioch having assembled a council of bishops in that city, St. Nonnus, 1 one of the number, was commissioned to announce the word of God to the people. Accordingly he preached before the church of St. Julian martyr, in the presence of the other bishops. During the sermon, Pelagia passed that way richly adorned with jewels; and her beauty, heightened with all the elegance of dress, drew on her the attention of the whole assembly, except the bishops, who turned away their eyes from so scandalous an object; but Nonnus, looking earnestly at Pelagia, cries out in the middle of his discourse: “The Almighty in his infinite goodness will show mercy even to this woman, the work of his hands.” At these words, she stopped suddenly, and, joining the audience, was so touched with remorse for her criminal life, that she shed abundance of tears; and immediately after the sermon she addressed herself to Nonnus, imploring him to instruct her how to expiate her sins, and to prepare her for the grace of baptism.”
Here we see the greatest miracle of all, the seeing of another person as a person made by God. If we strive just to “look away” we miss the point, and ultimately end up treating other women simply as “people to look away from.” Again, this doesn’t mean I should go around staring at scantily clad women. But it does mean that in certain situations I should be prepared to look upon an immodest woman with God’s eyes – and that doesn’t happen with mere behavior modification.
Anyway, that’s my take on all of it. I still maintain that SA is a thoroughly Christian program, built solidly on the deepest and most fundamental truths of Christianity (even though it of course leaves room for others). Does that mean everyone should be in SA? Of course not – not everyone that struggles with lust is addicted (i.e. they can choose to stop). But we don’t prove God’s power by denying that lifelong addiction is real – we prove His power by observing that it is and then seeing Him miraculously care for the lives of those who entrust themselves to His protection.
Best,
Matthew
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wow. Well said. I want to turn this into a blog post. i would need to shrink it to 500 works. Maybe two blog post. If you wan attribution, I would gladly give it. I will also ask you to review this before posting. Your reaction to this?
| Matthew wrote: | |||
Jim,
Thanks for your feedback. Pelagia, btw, was later canonized as a saint of the Church.
A blog post or two sounds great. Use whatever you want. As far as attribution goes, just mention ‘a reader named Matthew.’
Looking forward to reading your posts.
Best,
Matthew
